Jared Crozier: Is a Hoffman trade a solution to any problem?

It's a solution to that pesky problem of someone playing well with Duchene

The logic behind trading Hoffman doesn't make sense when you consider they already turned down a "futures" deal which most definitely would have cut salary. That just leads one to believe that they want to get a player that can play now, which they have, with Hoffman himself.

I get the concern of Hoffman's "cold streaks" but that is the price you pay for the type of player he is. When he is on, he is on. That's what you are paying for and kind of gambling that the is able to turn it on when it matters most.

Best trade in my mind if keeping him and try to work out something else to cut costs. I am not entirely sure why trading Brassard, Smith, Pag, etc hasn't been discussed more. Not really core guys, take up significant salary, and could get reasonable assets back. I get Hoffman will likely get you the most assets, but I am not sold the assets are worth the los of decent 50-60 point guy.

Trade Ryan, Phaneuf, Smith and Anderson

Keep your young guys

If you assume forwards hit their career peak performance level around age 28 (for forwards) and a little older for Dmen. For elite players their very best year profiles out at around age 25.

If you want to win a Stanley Cup your reset has to be comprehensive. It means for the next few years you avoid signing any long term deals with players over the age of 25. You don't worry about short term deals (3 years or less) that overpay for veteran experience. Contract term is always a more important consideration than the actual dollars paid.

It is a three year commitment to missing the playoffs. No guarantee that you make the playoffs in year four or five.

The formula was written back when the salary cap was first adopted.

Dealing Karlsson this offseason is a huge start. I think Buffalo and Edmonton are the likely leading contenders. Both are able to to do huge deals. Both would become immediate contenders if they added a Karlsson on their back end.

I know it sounds arbitrary, even brutal. But rebuild means tear down first.

Unless the draft pick this year is top 3 they should let it go to Colorado.

Trade Ryan, Phaneuf, Smith and Anderson

Keep your young guys
- mr.sir

Agree.... except depends on return for Andy. Would hope condon doesn't come in and pull a hamburglar run

The logic behind trading Hoffman doesn't make sense when you consider they already turned down a "futures" deal which most definitely would have cut salary. That just leads one to believe that they want to get a player that can play now, which they have, with Hoffman himself.

I get the concern of Hoffman's "cold streaks" but that is the price you pay for the type of player he is. When he is on, he is on. That's what you are paying for and kind of gambling that the is able to turn it on when it matters most.

Best trade in my mind if keeping him and try to work out something else to cut costs. I am not entirely sure why trading Brassard, Smith, Pag, etc hasn't been discussed more. Not really core guys, take up significant salary, and could get reasonable assets back. I get Hoffman will likely get you the most assets, but I am not sold the assets are worth the los of decent 50-60 point guy.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

I think the gap in logic that you identified is actually concerning. It indicates that they are not interested in really rebuilding at all. They are going to try re-loading instead. I don't see that working. Ottawa is not in good shape at the moment and has some question marks coming up trying to re-sign Karlsson and Duchene.

If you assume forwards hit their career peak performance level around age 28 (for forwards) and a little older for Dmen. For elite players their very best year profiles out at around age 25.

If you want to win a Stanley Cup your reset has to be comprehensive. It means for the next few years you avoid signing any long term deals with players over the age of 25. You don't worry about short term deals (3 years or less) that overpay for veteran experience. Contract term is always a more important consideration than the actual dollars paid.

It is a three year commitment to missing the playoffs. No guarantee that you make the playoffs in year four or five.

The formula was written back when the salary cap was first adopted.

Dealing Karlsson this offseason is a huge start. I think Buffalo and Edmonton are the likely leading contenders. Both are able to to do huge deals. Both would become immediate contenders if they added a Karlsson on their back end.

I know it sounds arbitrary, even brutal. But rebuild means tear down first.

Unless the draft pick this year is top 3 they should let it go to Colorado.
- spatso

Hey, Mr. Gutless wonder. How come that logic didn't apply when the Leafs signed Marleau and Hainsey and you derped about it for weeks.

Also, how pathetic do you have to be to just decide to cheer for another team because the team you are cheering for isn't doing well.

When can we expect you to become a Bruins fan?

IF I was Eugene Melynk I would go to Dorion - as a businessman - and tell him that fans here in the market are smart enough, they know that we are not serious about contending or that we can't contend without some top picks. We have to make adjustments to keep some of the key players and marketable guys (Karlsson, Stone, Duchene) in tact long term.

Additionally developing White, Chabot, Brown and others' to play big roles on the team is going to be key. That said, we might need to eat some cash.

I would look at moving Bobby Ryan to a team like Vegas. Even if you retain less than 1m the fact is McPhee can use Ryan for this year; Ryan will play a lot better (IMO) without the pressure of a contract and playing in a Canadian Market; ALSO, Mcphee can turn around and trade Ryan at a cap reduced 5.5-5.75 to the east and their would be many teams interested in him at that price. Given the right situation PHI, PIT, WAS, NYI could be interested as he's shown a great ability to play well in short segments

IF I was Eugene Melynk I would go to Dorion - as a businessman - and tell him that fans here in the market are smart enough, they know that we are not serious about contending or that we can't contend without some top picks. We have to make adjustments to keep some of the key players and marketable guys (Karlsson, Stone, Duchene) in tact long term.

Additionally developing White, Chabot, Brown and others' to play big roles on the team is going to be key. That said, we might need to eat some cash.

I would look at moving Bobby Ryan to a team like Vegas. Even if you retain less than 1m the fact is McPhee can use Ryan for this year; Ryan will play a lot better (IMO) without the pressure of a contract and playing in a Canadian Market; ALSO, Mcphee can turn around and trade Ryan at a cap reduced 5.5-5.75 to the east and their would be many teams interested in him at that price. Given the right situation PHI, PIT, WAS, NYI could be interested as he's shown a great ability to play well in short segments
- AlfieisKing

Will that message fly though if it is coming from this ownership?

I agree with you that a plan that honestly assesses the team and may involve some tough choices (e.g. trading Karlsson?) Maybe could be sold to the Sens fan base.

I am just not so sure your fan base wants to hear it from that owner.

I think the gap in logic that you identified is actually concerning. It indicates that they are not interested in really rebuilding at all. They are going to try re-loading instead. I don't see that working. Ottawa is not in good shape at the moment and has some question marks coming up trying to re-sign Karlsson and Duchene.
- Aetherial

I think it's been identified as a retooling or reloading already. Only way you rebuild entirely is trading your assets now. Does anyone actually see this team dealing away the likes of Stone (25 years old), Karlsson, (27 years old), Matt Duchene (26 years old)?

They are serious question marks salary wise coming down the pipe, but sticking with the core they have can be successful, I think. Not going to happen overnight, but it will be interesting/scary to see how it all plays out.

Something was going to have to give next season or the year after, even if the team was performing well. Just how the salary cap era works.

Moving overpaid bottom line guys and replacing them with younger guys could relieve some cap issues. Smith, Pag, Burrows, and Brassard is about 13 mill. Keep Brassard, it's still 8ish mill. Add in the likes of Condon and Thompson (harder moves) that's another 3ish mill. There is way too much money being spread around the bottom half the roster. There too much money tied up in Ryan and Dion as well, but you can only deal so much.

If they are going to retool, something will have to give somewhere. They don't sound like they are doin that with Hoffman, so maybe somewhere else.

IF I was Eugene Melynk I would go to Dorion - as a businessman - and tell him that fans here in the market are smart enough, they know that we are not serious about contending or that we can't contend without some top picks. We have to make adjustments to keep some of the key players and marketable guys (Karlsson, Stone, Duchene) in tact long term.

Additionally developing White, Chabot, Brown and others' to play big roles on the team is going to be key. That said, we might need to eat some cash.

I would look at moving Bobby Ryan to a team like Vegas. Even if you retain less than 1m the fact is McPhee can use Ryan for this year; Ryan will play a lot better (IMO) without the pressure of a contract and playing in a Canadian Market; ALSO, Mcphee can turn around and trade Ryan at a cap reduced 5.5-5.75 to the east and their would be many teams interested in him at that price. Given the right situation PHI, PIT, WAS, NYI could be interested as he's shown a great ability to play well in short segments
- AlfieisKing

If the Sens commit to a full rebuild the contracts for Ryan and Phaneuf become marginal expenses. Expensive but not a huge worry in terms of a long term rebuild. Both contracts naturally expire over the rebuild period.

A rebuild, a new downtown arena and new ownership is a win/win/win combination for me.

Melnyk has no interest in a rebuild. If missing the playoffs for a few years means getting rid of Melnyk...count me as totally supporting the option. Remember the Leafs experienced 10 years of regular season and playoff futility.

Teams have a competitive cycle and it is time for the Sens to bottom out.

IF I was Eugene Melynk I would go to Dorion - as a businessman - and tell him that fans here in the market are smart enough, they know that we are not serious about contending or that we can't contend without some top picks. We have to make adjustments to keep some of the key players and marketable guys (Karlsson, Stone, Duchene) in tact long term.

Additionally developing White, Chabot, Brown and others' to play big roles on the team is going to be key. That said, we might need to eat some cash.

I would look at moving Bobby Ryan to a team like Vegas. Even if you retain less than 1m the fact is McPhee can use Ryan for this year; Ryan will play a lot better (IMO) without the pressure of a contract and playing in a Canadian Market; ALSO, Mcphee can turn around and trade Ryan at a cap reduced 5.5-5.75 to the east and their would be many teams interested in him at that price. Given the right situation PHI, PIT, WAS, NYI could be interested as he's shown a great ability to play well in short segments
- AlfieisKing

No one is trading anything of value for Bobby Ryan at any cost. He has far too many years left on his contract to take that gamble. His actual pay also increases, so a cap floor team will not even want him.

Trade Ryan, Phaneuf, Smith and Anderson

Keep your young guys
- mr.sir

Im sure if it were that easy those guys would be long gone.

Im sure if it were that easy those guys would be long gone.
- poisondhearts37

The only one of those guys who might get traded is Smith.

The logic behind trading Hoffman doesn't make sense when you consider they already turned down a "futures" deal which most definitely would have cut salary. That just leads one to believe that they want to get a player that can play now, which they have, with Hoffman himself.

I get the concern of Hoffman's "cold streaks" but that is the price you pay for the type of player he is. When he is on, he is on. That's what you are paying for and kind of gambling that the is able to turn it on when it matters most.

Best trade in my mind if keeping him and try to work out something else to cut costs. I am not entirely sure why trading Brassard, Smith, Pag, etc hasn't been discussed more. Not really core guys, take up significant salary, and could get reasonable assets back. I get Hoffman will likely get you the most assets, but I am not sold the assets are worth the los of decent 50-60 point guy.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Hoffman is expensive. He'll be gone.

Brassard's salary is less than his caphit. He's not going anywhere, despite wanting out.

It's a solution to Melnyks money problems

If you assume forwards hit their career peak performance level around age 28 (for forwards) and a little older for Dmen. For elite players their very best year profiles out at around age 25.

If you want to win a Stanley Cup your reset has to be comprehensive. It means for the next few years you avoid signing any long term deals with players over the age of 25. You don't worry about short term deals (3 years or less) that overpay for veteran experience. Contract term is always a more important consideration than the actual dollars paid.

It is a three year commitment to missing the playoffs. No guarantee that you make the playoffs in year four or five.

The formula was written back when the salary cap was first adopted.

Dealing Karlsson this offseason is a huge start. I think Buffalo and Edmonton are the likely leading contenders. Both are able to to do huge deals. Both would become immediate contenders if they added a Karlsson on their back end.

I know it sounds arbitrary, even brutal. But rebuild means tear down first.

Unless the draft pick this year is top 3 they should let it go to Colorado.
- spatso

It's a solution for Melnyk not having to pay Hoffman

Will that message fly though if it is coming from this ownership?

I agree with you that a plan that honestly assesses the team and may involve some tough choices (e.g. trading Karlsson?) Maybe could be sold to the Sens fan base.

I am just not so sure your fan base wants to hear it from that owner.
- Aetherial

I agree that the team has to look at rebuilding but that wouldn't mean the massive overhaul people think of. The Sens could contend with Karlsson in 2-3 years IF:

(1) Thomas Chabot develops into a top pairing D-man
(2) Logan Brown + Colin White can be top 6 forwards by the 2019-2020 Season
(3) The Sens make good of a top 5-6 pick this June
(4)* The Sens getting a #1 goalie* - this may become huge

All of the above with Duchene, Stone, Hoffman, and Karlsson here + the depth the Sens have in Formenton, Bathersone, Chaplik up front and Jaros, Claesson, Harpur on the back end. The team lacks star power. They have Karlsson and now Stone, and those are the guys they have to pay now

No one is trading anything of value for Bobby Ryan at any cost. He has far too many years left on his contract to take that gamble. His actual pay also increases, so a cap floor team will not even want him.
- VT001

Whether some might not agree or not, Ryan always has his contract and the talk around it in the back of his mind.

Given his performance last year in the playoffs and his desperate need for a change in scenery - I disagree. I think it would make sense from a hockey standpoint to trade for Ryan (IF you have $ to play with - which Vegas does). Similar to the Methot pick up, you could easily turn around and move out. IF he was to put up points, which I believe playing on Vegas he would, you turn around and trade him in the summer (with some of his salary retained)

Hoffman is expensive. He'll be gone.

Brassard's salary is less than his caphit. He's not going anywhere, despite wanting out.
- Tumbleweed

When did he say he wants out?

I agree that the team has to look at rebuilding but that wouldn't mean the massive overhaul people think of. The Sens could contend with Karlsson in 2-3 years IF:

(1) Thomas Chabot develops into a top pairing D-man
(2) Logan Brown + Colin White can be top 6 forwards by the 2019-2020 Season
(3) The Sens make good of a top 5-6 pick this June
(4)* The Sens getting a #1 goalie* - this may become huge

All of the above with Duchene, Stone, Hoffman, and Karlsson here + the depth the Sens have in Formenton, Bathersone, Chaplik up front and Jaros, Claesson, Harpur on the back end. The team lacks star power. They have Karlsson and now Stone, and those are the guys they have to pay now
- AlfieisKing

To soon for those to be impacts that soon.

The only one of those guys who might get traded is Smith.
- forbetterorWORSE

Probably. One would think that maybe Arizona would take a shot on Ryan. Domi has only scored 3 goals this year I think.

When did he say he wants out?
- poisondhearts37

“I’ll play anywhere. I wouldn’t refuse to go anywhere in the world or anywhere in the East,” Brassard said. “I have really good memories of playing in Columbus, we had a lot of fun.”

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...ill-play-hockey-anywhere/